Friday, April 18, 2014

Atheists and the Tyranny of the Minority

Here we go, again. It's business as usual for the Freedom From Religion Foundation.

Their 2 latest "victories":

1. Threatening city of Pismo Beach, California with a civil suit unless they ended their practice of beginning city council meetings with an invocation, and

2. Filing a suit against Clemson College for leading their football team in prayer before games.

I'm personally tired of Atheists forcing their unhappiness on others simply because as a group they appear to be intolerant of anybody that believes in God.

If the FFRF wanted to make a real difference in our world, they'd take that money they waste on petty lawsuits and donate it to food banks instead.

It would make a much better impression on kid to fill his belly than to tell him he can't pray on a public schoolground.

Atheists, in their self-interest, fail to get the bigger picture.

It's all about tolerance.

Why can't Atheists be the example by displaying some?

'Nuff said.

11 comments:

Logic Lad said...

Stoogie

Do you understand the principal of seperartion of church and state?

Stoogie said...

Logic Lad:

Do you under stand the "Freedom of Expression" Clause of the 1st Amendment of the Constitution?

JBsptfn said...

Logic Lad, that "separation of church and state" remark is BS because it covers up the true agenda of the Atheist movement: To destroy religion any way they can.

The Freedom from Religion foundation is bogus. They don't have the right to do what they have been doing. People like you and them call yourselves "freethinkers", and then you go out and try to tell Christians what they can and can't do with lawsuits.

Logic Lad said...

I am not a constitutional scholar but my understanding is that the government does not have the right of free expression that right is reserved for individuals. When someone is employed as part of the government then when acting in that capacity they have to act accordingly. Ie. the coach of a public school is a public servant and hence should not be promoting religion at his place of work. Certainly not obligating pupils to pray. If my understanding here is wrong please feel free to correct me.

Stoogie said...

Logic Lad:

It was voluntary prayer, a tradition that has been observed for generations.

Why can't atheists show tolerance towards tradition? This intolerance has been a hallmark of Atheistic activism since the days of Madalyn Murray O'Hair.

Logic Lad said...

JBSptfn
Wow, could you make the brush a little broader, you know next to nothing about me and yet you apparently have insight into my deepest intentions.
I don’t want to destroy religion, I think that humanity would be better without it, but you are free to believe exactly as you like, be it Jesus, Mohammed, Buddha or the FSM. What I object to is you trying to make me, or anyone else, conform to the strange rules you enforce on yourself, in the name of your deity of choice.
I don’t believe in your god, so following his rules in his name is a bit silly. So please continue to believe any way you like, but don’t expect me to accept ‘cause my god says so’ as a reason that I should do anything.
And I believe the FFRF is seeking to protect the constitutional rights of all Americans to not have a particular religion foisted on them by the government. Given that the courts keep agreeing with the FFRF in matters of local government and praying perhaps they have a point.
Stoogie
I am not aware of the specifics but the point is that if the team wanted to get together before a practice or a game and those who felt they wanted to prayed there would not be a problem. The issue comes with an authority figure leading the prayer that could create a hostile environment for anyone who did not want to participate. How would you feel being led in prayer by a Muslim, now imagine you are at high school, being on the team is a big deal, and you don’t want to jeopardise your position. Would you go along with a Muslim prayer because your coach wants you to, even if you don’t believe, even if it makes you feel uncomfortable? This is the position of anyone on the team who is not whatever brand of Christianity the coach.
This is before the simple legal issue of the government is not supposed to promote any religion and the coach, this being a public school, is representing the government.
Tolerance, that is strange thing coming from someone who has a web site called ‘Athiests say the nuttiest things’, you seem to think tolerance is a one way street, you should be allowed to do and say what you want and everyone else should just shut up, that is not tolerance it is the exact opposite of tolerance. As I have said I don’t care what you believe, your actions are what concern me. Please feel free to worship in any way you like as long as it does not interfere with anyone else, that is when all parties need to look at what is proposed and then compromise on what is and isn’t allowed.

Metacrock said...

Say LL I'm partially in sympathy with you. I always felt like prayers in school (when I was a kid) were phony. I don't think it hurt anyone's belief not to pray before a pep rally or the beginning of the school day.

On the other hand people on city councils are not government employees they barley make money they elected by the people and they are expressing their views and the view of the community. IN most communities about 90% of the people would agree with them. why don't you offer to do an atheist moment of silence and see if they take up on it?

Logic Lad said...

Meta

Getting paid is irrelevant, someone on a city council is a representative of the government, As representatives of the establishment they are not supposed to promote any religion, that’s the legal issue. Not to mention the moral imperative to represent all the people in the community, not just the ones who voted for them, or the ones they agree with, or the ones they like.

So what if a lot of people agree with them, though even in America I find it hard to believe that percentage would be 90%, part of the point of the constitution is to avoid the tyranny of the majority and you should support this principle whether you are part of the majority or not, because you may not always be in the majority and then who will protect your rights?

Why not stop wasting time when there is actual business to do? start the bloody meetings, there is no need for a prayer, a benediction, a moment of silence or reciting sections from ‘God is not Great’ how about the people who are elected to office to serve the people actually make that their priority rather than over blown expression of public humility?

JBsptfn said...

Logic Lad:

I didn't say that you wanted to destroy religion. I said that groups like FFRF and American Atheists do.

Now, you may be right about Church and State in the Constitution, but that's not the point. Their target is Christianity, and they want to destroy it no matter what the laws are.

I also agree with you about religion. Jesus didn't come down here to start one. He preached love. Love your neighbor as yourself. He didn't come to earth to preach the pop, fundy Christianity that people like you are fighting against. You are battling the wrong enemy.

Logic Lad said...

JBsptfn

No you said it was part of the ‘Atheist Movement agenda’ to ‘Destroy religion in any way they can’ Given I am the only atheist voice in this conversation am I wrong to assume that you consider me part of the atheist movement?

FFRF do not target Christianity, they go after anyone trying to breach the separation of church and state or trying to foist religion on people who do not share that faith, America is predominantly Christian, so unsurprisingly they are the ones that most often try to get the laws changed in their favour. Other faiths do not have the numbers or political power to try and in act these kind of changes, and if they did, you would be the first one to complain about being forced to live by someone else’s faith.

I think all religion is based on faulty thinking, however I agree that it is only the fundy types that really cause big problems, they are the ones that think that laws should be passed to enforce religious laws and everyone should be forced to worship. I would add the fundies only exist because they get cover from the silent majority, if the moderate religious types slapped down the fundies as hard as they go after atheists then there would be a lot less for the atheist’s to complain about.

JBsptfn said...

Logic Lad,

It's ironic that you talk about Fundy types when you are on the other side of the Fundamentalist coin (the Fundy Atheist side).